Kitesurfing Lessons

[duluoz]

I'm new to this forum and am looking forward to meeting other wind sport enthusiasts from this board.

I recently purchased a used 12m kite so that I could start kitesurfing. I had planned on getting some lessons from Myers Kitesurfing in Wilson but just discovered that Bill Myers won't be offering kite surfing lessons this year.

So I'm wondering if anyone else could offer a suggestion on another training resource here in Western NY.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Eric

[David]

what type of kite is it? THere are no other kitesurfing lessons locally that I know of but with an SLE you can pretty much learn like the rest of us...watch, read, learn, and try. The problem here is the lack of shallow water. I would say go to Durand but the high water level and huge crowds this year have pretty much sucked for kiting, not to mention the lack of consistant wind. You must be able to fly a trainer kite like it is second nature, not watching it all the time and not crashing it before you put up any big kite around people. You can PM me with any questions.

[rider1200]

Eric,

I'm new to the sport myself and don't even have my own kite yet. But I do have a 3 meter trainer that is only 2 lines and like David said is a huge help and highly recommended.

I used the trainer on foot, then on snowskis & rollerblades...not really for fun but just to learn (ok it was a little fun). I took a lesson at XL Kites on vacation in Pensicola that didn't go so well but I took another at Kittyhawk Kites in the outer banks that was awesome. Part of the difference was luck in the conditions but the outer banks also had a much larger shallow training area. I also suggest learning to wakeboard behind a boat 1st.

If you want to try the trainer kite drop me a note or give me a call. I also have a boat & a board and I go out after 6 during the week alot. If you're past that stage keep posting, I'm sure someone will give you advice as to when & where to go...then you can pass it on to me!

Brent
733-2440

[duluoz]

David,

The kite is a Liquid Force M80 12 meter (5 line) with bar, lines and pump. I'm not sure if the M80 is an SLE but I did some research before buying it and it seemed to be a kite that many schools used.

I don't have a harness or board yet so if anybody has some used gear I would be interested. I'll need a trainer kite too, a 3 meter if possible so I can use it for snowkiting as well.

Brent,

I appreciate your offers and would like to take you up on both. I'll give you a call in the next couple of days or if you find that you are going out to fly or wakeboard and have time for me you can reach me at 739-5174. I'd like to take a look at your trainer kite before making a purchase.

Thanks to both of you for your help.

Also, has anyone thought of launching from the beach just east of the mouth of Braddocks Bay. If you head north on E. Manitou Rd. there is a road near the end called Braddock Rd. that leads into a marina and a beach right in front that I think is usually vacant. As I recall, there is a huge sand bar there where the water is shallow for quite some distance.

Eric

[waterauthorityrick]

Eric,

Get some help and get to the water, the season will be over before we know it.

The Braddock thing is a good idea we windsurfed there a few times back in the early 90's but there is ZERO parking, don't even consider parking on the road. The home owners will have the cops there in a second writing tickets, pay attention to the signs.

You can park at the marina but they may charge you the standard boat launch fee.

H2O Rick

[Windydoug]

Interesting to hear about a shallow water sandy learning area!
WD

[David]

Hey eric sorry for the slow reply to you but I have been working and suprisingly kiting, Canada has been rockin good. The M-80 is a 5th line C kite not a bow or SLE so although the safety features are good the depower is not as much as some others. Dis you get a trainer yet? I have a couple boards I am selling as well as some of my over-bloated kite quiver if you need something.

[duluoz]

David,

Thanks for the feedback on the M80. I searched the internet repeatedly and never was able to get an accurate description of the type of kite. A C kite certainly would not have been my first choice but it was like brand new and inexpensive so hopefully it will be good enough to get me started after working with a trainer kite.

I did some research over the weekend at various forums and settled on an HQ Beamer Scout 3 meter trainer kite, which should arrive next week. I also invested in a Dakine Pyro harness, helmet, and landboard.

My plan is to become proficient with the trainer kite and then start using it with the landboard. I'm interested in snowkiting as well and the Scout had many positive comments regarding its usefulness for land and snow.

I'm finding that documentation for this sport and its equipment is sparse so I'll probably have a bunch of dumb questions once this stuff arrives.

Let me know if you have some feedback on any of this.

Thanks again.
Eric

[duluoz]

Rick and Doug,

Just FYI, I checked out that Braddock Bay site this weekend. The marina does have parking available for folks that want to use the park and the associated beach at no charge (until dusk). Unfortunately there is no beach to speak of to launch from due to the high water level. Also, it seemed to be crowded with boats at anchor on the sandbar during the weekend, although this probably would not be a problem on a weekday. Also, there were a couple of decent sized jetties at each end of the beach (about 80 yards apart or so) that looked like they might complicate a person's learning process.

Eric

[David]

Not a bad choice with the HQ beamer, 3m is going to be a tad small for you snow kiting unless you are 85lbs or go in 40mph winds but you will learn with it. Just an FYI I use a 12m most of the time on snow, occasionally a 9m and as big as 17. I to have scouted Braddock bay several times and unfortunately I see little advantage going there. The launch is not great: other boats, power lines, crowd, muck, etc. and you still need winds with a northerly to ride there, same as Durand. Seneca is a great place to learn in the fall when the water park is closed but pretty much off limits during the summer. (everyone should be launching on the grass near the goalpost and climbing down the wall so there are no mishaps that lead to banning kites.) The water is waist deep out about 100+ yards, usually enough to get nice ride in while you are learning. Again it is too bad that NYS says no launching at Hamlin. My advice; Dewey beach in Delaware, 7 hrs away, camping 400 meters from the water, shallow warm bay and mostly reliable afternoon winds. It is a fun 3-4 day trip with a good forecast. Always try to learn with a partner to launch and land...

[duluoz]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I was able to get the HQ Scout kite up and flying this weekend and was actually able to get it to pull me across the field on the landboard a couple times. My son, along with a couple of his friends, and I spent the entire weekend learning and experimenting and just had a blast. Needless to say, I am absolutely hooked now.

David, I would be interested in knowing if you have a kite larger than this 3 meter but smaller than my 12 meter that you are looking to sell. I'd also be interested in a wakeboard.

I could really use some instruction regarding the correct way to rig the 12 meter kite as the lines coming off the bar do not seem to match the connections on the kite.

There is an alarming lack of written documentation for all this stuff.

Any help would be appreciated.

[rider1200]

Congrats on making it across the field! Keep doing it and concentrate on knowing where the kite is without looking at it. I would say your next step is to play with your 12 in the water without a board. You really should have good help and my 2 lessons really don't qualify me but if no one else is around I'm up for it. The wind should be as perpendicular to the land as possible and you'll drag yourself around in the water to get a feel for how the kite acts compared to your little trainer.

I just bought an 07 Best Waroo off ebay (from Texas) and I'm hoping to have it in a week. I'll be learning myself, I'll try to call you so you can watch me learn...maybe point & laugh a little!

Again I've only had two lessons and I don't own my own gear but my opinion is you should sell the kite you bought and pick up a bow kite. From what I've read they are safer and have a wider wind range.

[duluoz]

I will definitely be investing in a newer kite, but I bought that 12m M80 and so am compelled to fly it. I took it out of the bag tonight (for only the 2nd time) to take another look at the lines and connections and realized the lines are only 10 meters long. Does this seem too short?

Also, the loops and knots between the kite and the bar don't seem to match and the 5th line is not rigged. I'm not even sure the Airush bar is equipped to be rigged with the 5th line.

Any advice on line length would be appreciated. My guess is that I should probably just purchase a new set. Even so, without documentation getting it rigged correctly will be a miracle.

Why don't they make manuals for these things?

Thanks again for the help.
Eric

[waterauthorityrick]

Eric,

You need to call Lynn Davis 323-1035 for assistance, I trust he would be more than happy to help.

I don't own a kite and know that 30 meters seems way too short.

H20 Rick

PS Please send wind.

[rider1200]

If you get an answer for line length I'd love to hear it. Bunch of guys hit Durand Sunday and I caught them packing up. David was talking about line lengths and the fact that his are shorter but I only heard part of it.

From what I understood the shorter line length makes the kite turn faster and possibly pull harder as a result but makes the wind window smaller, forcing you to turn the kite more. I'm guessing a longer length would give a smoother pull because you'd have to turn it less to keep it powered plus the kite is up higher where the wind is less interrupted but I don't know how short is too short or how long is too long.

[Windydoug]

I was in on the line length conversation. David uses shorter 22m lines (or close to that) around here due to the crampedness of the beaches. He doesn't have issue with it, and the reasons given by rider1200 for the shorter lines appear to be valid. It sounds like 27m is an accepted length and allows for a longer (larger) power zone when the wind is marginal. He has various extensions so that he can varry that length.
A windsurfer adding his two cents......Doug

[David]

Whoa Nellie! lets go back to the beginning: Line length is the second most important thing next to selecting a kite size. For those of you trying to figure out what line length to use go by this simple formula. 3m in line length gives you about .4m additional kite size. Standard lines used to be 27m now they are 20, why you ask, because modern kites have not only gotten safer but they are much more efficent than C shapes of the past; in other words you get more bang for your buck. Longer lines extend the size of the wind window and the power stroke that can be generated when working the kite, it has nothing to do with smoother wind or the jetstream! When I turn the kite down to get me out of the water on plane the kite will stay in the power zone for 1 second with 20m, 1.3 seconds with 23m, and 1.6 seconds with 27m lines, longer stroke = more power.

[Windydoug]

And there you have it. I will stick to my board and sail knowledge!!! It is facinating though to learn about kiting and it's innner workings.
David is a total pro...hopefully he wont permanently leave the area for work or something like that....our windsport community is better for his knowledge....and sometimes endless supply of used gear.

WD

[duluoz]

I love this forum. I ask questions and then answers magically appear.

David, thanks for the lesson on line length. (Is there a book where all of that kind of data is written?) Does this mean that a good, average line length for my semi-deadly 12m M80 would be somewhere in the 25m-27m range (due to it being an older C kite)?

When I bought this thing in Feb. I thought, "Hey, it's a 2006 model. That's not that old. How much better could the kites of 2008 be?" Obviously, I should have sought advice here first.

Nevertheless, thanks to your help, I will order new lines and get this thing rigged and hopefully I'll be out flying with you folks before the snow flies. In the meantime, I'll keep practicing with the trainer.

Thanks,
Eric

[David]

Honestly Eric, my advice is to sell the M-80. Hard to hear no doubt but you are going to waste a lot of time waiting for the right winds to fly it in when you can get your money out and buy an appropriate kite. Additionally an SLE kite will be safer, easier to launch and re-launch, better jumping, more range, and carry you through a longer period of kiting without upgrading. A deal is not a deal unless it works for you and there are a ton of people on Ebay looking for kites. List it for what you paid and it will sell. If you are going to keep it I would get 20m lines. There are already extensions on your bar that you attach the lines to so really they end up being 21-23m anyway.